Lil Formers #138: Not Manga!
This is something that really does bug me. Lately it seems that EVERYbody wants to pretend what they are doing is manga. Just to be clear, I’m not saying that fake manga’s are necessarily bad (a few are quite good while many are pretty awful…). I’m annoyed by book’s calling themselves manga when they clearly arent. I don’t think I’m alone (from what I’ve read even the MegaTokyo fellow doesn’t seem to like his work being labeled as manga.)
To me a real manga must be (in order of importance):
- produced for a Japanese audience
- produced by Japanese creators in Japan
- done in a right-to-left format
Anything else is just pretending. Just to give you an example of one of the worst offenders, last year two different publishers released on the same day Ghostbusters #1(comic) and Ghostbusters: The Manga Vol.1. One was in colour and one was black & white, but otherwise the art style and storytelling in both looked pretty american. Also both read left to right, and both were by Western creators. So, no “GB Manga” you are not a manga, you are a long comic.
I generally have the same feeling about OEL(Original English Language) comics that call themselves manga. I’m thinking we need a new term for these things. Maybe “Fanga”? Works either as ”Fan Manga” or “Fake Manga” so you can take your pick heh.
March 9th, 2009 at 12:10 am
There is one Manga that is being printed left to right still.
March 9th, 2009 at 12:31 am
I would say Manga has more to do with style than with format or language… but Ghostbusters Manga… come on…
March 9th, 2009 at 12:35 am
Manga is just Japanese for comics. So to a Japanese person, any comic book, whether its about Superman or Naruto, is Manga. Any other distinction is purely in your head.
For American retailers, Comic books are done on larger pages, Manga is published in a more book-sized sheets. That’s all the guy stocking your local Borders cares about, and your comic shall not sway him.
March 9th, 2009 at 12:41 am
While I agree with you on most of these points, I still kinda consider at least ONE of the Marvel Mangaverse comics to be manga (only because the art was done by the author of the Slayers manga).
March 9th, 2009 at 12:48 am
I disagree with the “if it’s made for US audiences by Americans, it’s not Manga” assertion.
IMO, it depends on the art style/general style/feel of the book.
March 9th, 2009 at 12:51 am
the bible manga, I remember that one XD
even if I dont have any problem with comics that want to use manga style from time to time, either as a parody or just to see what happens, sometimes I ponder if it isnt got out of control that a lot of comics got “mangarized” (sorry for the made up word).
March 9th, 2009 at 1:38 am
There actually IS a Japanese produced Manga about Jesus (which I’m sure is not what you are referring to).
http://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/switch-language/product/4082400133/ref=dp_change_lang?ie=UTF8&language=en_JP
Its from a series about historical figures.
March 9th, 2009 at 2:33 am
What about Batman: Death Mask though? It was done by a Japanese artist/writer, and was right to left, but is about an American character. Same with the old Bat-Manga they just reprinted here. Maybe they’re somewhere in-between?
March 9th, 2009 at 2:33 am
Hey, is that Shredder on the Samuari Middle School?
March 9th, 2009 at 3:29 am
They’re all just “comics” to me. I don’t refer to Asterix or any other French comic as a “bande dessinée” (*) when I’m speaking English, so I’m not going to go using Japanese for a Japanese comic either. It’s inconsistent, and more than a little silly. (*) (I don’t actually speak French, so I’m taking a translation program’s word for it on this. But even if this isn’t the correct term, the point remains; just substitute the correct French words in there instead.)
March 9th, 2009 at 4:24 am
there is actually a Bible Manga? WTF? I thought that was just a Moylan joke lol
I agree that Manga should only be used in English speaking locations when it is a Japanese produced comic, and not for Marvel or Western written comics
March 9th, 2009 at 4:40 am
This reminds me of the option in David Dayton’s CDisplay for right-to-left Manga-style reading for comic scanners that scanned the manga and saved the files in the wrong order.
I say the wrong order because there is definitely a right order to read things in: the beginning to the end. Whether or not the beginning is on the left side or the right is pointless, and the fact that this program supports idiocy like people scanning things in backwards for “tradition” or “because that’s how the thing works” is form over function and is pointless.
The point of this story is that separating the wheat from the chaff is pointless in this pet peeve of manga for you. Who cares what is called what; even what you consider “real” manga is rife with crap, so I found years ago that it is best not to side with a genre, but with a quality.
Anything that calls itself something it’s not will eventually be out in the wash.
March 9th, 2009 at 4:54 am
I’m glad I’m not the only one who hates those fake mangas that are poping up everywhere. I guess since manga is becoming so popular nowadays, the english comic companies are trying to market thier comics as such to make more money. It also doesn’t help that Tokyopop markets English and Australian comics as “manga” ether.
(Peach Fuzz referance ftw. I’m surprised that you know about it, Moylan)
March 9th, 2009 at 6:08 am
I had the same thought as Monty Python there. My first thought was also of “Batman; Death Mask” which was made by marvel but because they had the story written and drawn by Japanese artists the comics came in black and white traditional styled art and the “comic” came written right to left.
The thing with this is that “Batman: Death Mask” was not sold as manga batman at all, it was sold in a series of 5 traditional sized comics as if it were just another batman comic, they jut said that it had been written in a “Manga Style” so as not to stifle the creativity of the writer/artist as they were used to the format.
This is one example of comic meets manga that sets the bar for the others, it was done for the right reasons, not just to cash in on the manga craze
March 9th, 2009 at 7:14 am
I’m not a fan of people selling “comics” as “manga”. I guess to me they’re all graphic novels whether they’re “manga” or “comics”.
It is annoying that companies are trying to cash in on the ignorance of the (mostly) Wapanese. Mind you, they have it coming.
I will buy any graphic novel that’s halfway good whatever classification that publishers decide to give it.
March 9th, 2009 at 7:52 am
Yeah, I agree. But what about comics made by an American artist, but produced and initially released in Japan?
March 9th, 2009 at 8:41 am
I’m no fan of most manga, but that was still really funny. That Miley Cyrus manga made me want to puke though.
March 9th, 2009 at 8:45 am
Everyone says that Anime by definition is exclusively animation and art from Japan are, for lack of better words, wrong. Apologies for being so blunt but it’s true.
You see, that definition may have worked a few decades ago, but it’s worthless now. Nearly everyone draws in anime style these days. It’s the popular art style of the whippersnappers during these times. At least, all the whippersnappers on Sheezyart, Deviantart, and Gaia. If anime is solely art and animation from Japan, that means that nobody without a Japanese heritage can make anime. Under that definition, all of Gaia’s fanart pics of Sailor Moon, Naruto, and the rest of those popular series aren’t anime even though they’re drawn in the exact same style as their original Japanese creators. Gaia online cannot exist because it’s called an American anime forum site. But that would be impossible since American anime doesn’t exist under the idea that anime has to be Japanese.
And yet we’re here. People from all over the world draw in the exact same style that originated in Japan. Since people outside of Japan draw anime, I think it’s safe to say that not all anime comes from Japan. I don’t have a drop of Asian blood in me and I draw anime just fine (insert shameless plug for my sheezyart account here). [Note: I don't draw anime much anymore but I did back then.]
And if that argument wasn’t self explanatory enough, lets look at the flip side. Under the idea that anime is only art and animation from Japan, that means any drawing a Japanese person makes is anime no matter what style he or she draws in. A Japanese person who draws a picture of GI Joe in the style seen in Marvel Comic’s during the 60’s wouldn’t be considered anime, so the definition is flawed. To admit that a Japanese person’s drawings in an American style aren’t anime, that must mean that anime is an art style. If a Japanese person invented Garfield and drew in the exact same style as Jim Davis would, that wouldn’t be anime. That would be an individual cartoon style.
Not to mention that most of the people making Japanese animation aren’t Japanese. With anime so popular among the yougnins these days, the Japanese just can’t keep up with the demand for new episodes of your favorite shows. So, they bring in Koreans and Chinese to work in their animation studios to speed up the process. Now, if something made by many different Asian countries is considered anime, it stands to reason that anime is not Japanese exclusive. In fact, many American studios get the same Chinese and Koreans to do the grunt work in their shows too.
My overall point is this. We all love anime. We wouldn’t be on this site if we didn’t. So lets not keep our definition of the thing we love so cut and dry. The definition has been reinvented, and we’re all living proof.
March 9th, 2009 at 9:19 am
That Miley Cyrus one just reminds me of a Britney Spears Manga I saw in Waterstone’s once, I ran, ran far away from the bad book
March 9th, 2009 at 9:38 am
“Arrrgg! My soul hurts!!”
I know your pain^^
In Brazil are a comic called “A Turma da Mônica” (The Monicas’s Gang). Well Most recently, Mauricio de Souza (creator of comic), release the “mangá” version…
The “manga” are most TOSCO!!!! (mean “too bad”) comic are made here…
The plot no ecxiste, the drawn are poor, and are similar than Naruto (Street clean Ninja = Gari Ninja).
March 9th, 2009 at 9:44 am
ROFL , matt i <3 YOU
i woke up today in a pissy mood , but when i saw the pic and the description i bawled my ass off XD .
*has a shot of Jello* (cheers bud’)
[ AESIR ] curse you XP now i got to look for that book , curse you ^__^
March 9th, 2009 at 9:53 am
I was unaware of the bible manga, but yah. Lindsey Lohan has her own Manga where she teaches a young fan self esteem and self worth n’ stuff. Yah know, if yer teaching your daughter self worth buy buying her a lindsey lohan manga… than you probably don’t get that whole “parenting” thing at all.
I actually thought the star trek manga was amusing, the star wars manga (which came first) was cute, everything ghostbusters and batman, and X-men… was just an abomination and needs to get back to their own damn medium. Ghostbusters should have had higher standards.
March 9th, 2009 at 9:58 am
In Brazil we have a “pseudo-mangá”, one variant of main-stream.
Holy Avenger, Victory, Ultra L.I.N.S. Dungeons Crawlers, Desert Rangers (ok, the title is my, but no published XD).
March 9th, 2009 at 11:03 am
Manga is a Japanese term for comic or illusitated anthology. Yes, Marvel and DC are trying to “Turning Japanese, I think so…” (If anyone under thirty+ gets that, I am impress with your music knowledge). Question is what about English-based manga, since they are did in the same type as those in Japan, but only in America. As some have said manga is a style or type of comic, not just Japanese only. OTAKU UNITE!
March 9th, 2009 at 11:05 am
I have the same thing about Transformers (obviously). Challenge of the Go-Bots are robots that change into vehicles, but that does not make them Transformers. Don’t get me started on the generic toys that happen to change into stuff. And AAARRRRGGGHHHH with the Power Ranger Zords being called Transformers!!!
March 9th, 2009 at 11:16 am
You know the Manga Curse has been floating arund fo years, people assume if you draw a certain way its manga…But what these MORONIC fools seem to Forgt is that you need to check who is doing, Heck what we need is a Manga Board, not that Gaia Crap! But someone or a group who honestly kno what they are doing who can say hey thats Manga and that over there is some kid who lives in America… By the Way Matt I miss The Robots!
March 9th, 2009 at 11:40 am
I must admit I have the Manga New Testament thing you refer to. I thought it was a pretty interesting attempt to tell the story of Jesus in the most popular medium of the day. In that respect, it was successful.
March 9th, 2009 at 11:56 am
Fruits Bucket? Ah ha ha! I wonder how many people got that.
Yeah, I’m all for imitating the manga style. (Like Avatar, for instance.) But, it’s not real manga unless it was produced in Japan. It’s as simple as that.
March 9th, 2009 at 12:01 pm
This is much ado about nothing. Manga are comics. Perhaps it’s appropriate to say “comics done in a certain style,” but this is just nitpicky, and takes all the fun out of the enterprise.
March 9th, 2009 at 12:47 pm
Miley Cyrus Manga HA HA HA!
March 9th, 2009 at 2:10 pm
What about KingdomHearts manga? It was produced in the left to right, but in Japan?
There is also Ninja Turtle Anime. They got powers from mutagen stones, or something. Can summon giant mecha. Shredder can turn into a giant evil dragon or something.
What is the difference, when you get down to it, between, picked randomly, Death Note and Johnny the Homocidal Maniac in format? JTHM is printed on bigger sheets of paper? DN is read right to left?
Both got released originally in issues. Manga “issues” just normally called chapters.
March 9th, 2009 at 3:18 pm
Agree 1000%. This has been bugging me for over a decade with “Ninja High School”.
True manga must be made by Japanese artists. For some reason, I can always tell when they are made by non-Japanese. (I bought the Star Trek manga online thinking it was legit, and instantly realized I’d been had.) The Japanese artists draw that way naturally, the American ones try to force the style and it shows. They’ve been drawing one way their whole lives and then try to ape the manga style, but it just looks wrong.
I realize this is changing; we’ve got a generation of American kids growing up that were raised on Pokemon. These kids’ art may actually look identical to manga when they grow up.
March 9th, 2009 at 5:47 pm
You sir offend me. Not very deeply but still enough to make note of it.
You are promoting segreation of sequential art sir!
Why does it matter where a book came from or who it was written for or even which direction it is read?
These things have nothing to do with the quality of the art or the content of it’s characters.
Are not all word baloons created equal? Let us cast off unnessary labels so that we may all bask in the glory of this storytelling method.
Power to the Panels!
March 9th, 2009 at 6:06 pm
BURSTS OUT LAUGHING @ HYPERACTIVATOR
March 9th, 2009 at 6:08 pm
So does this count the Superman, X-men, Spiderman and Batman mangas from the 70s that were written by japanese people, for a japanese audience in japan?
How about the ones from that time that were good adaptations of the American materials?
I’m surprised you didn’t mention Dreamwave’s Manga digests that totally didn’t contribute to the colapse of the great Pat Lee empire!
March 9th, 2009 at 6:39 pm
@No Less Than God: Hah didn’t know anyone remembered those Dreamwave Digest books. I worked onthose along with most everything else at DW. The were most definitely an attempt to cash in on the manga hype, though I don’t believe we ever called them manga, the line was call “DW Pockets”
March 9th, 2009 at 9:26 pm
So, no manga love for Tales of Vanima Forest?
http://vanimaforest.strivearth.com
I meant, we have manga-looking characters and manga-feeling storyline, so we can call it manga, right?
March 9th, 2009 at 9:42 pm
The difference between the Manga and Western comics of tradition was always less about drawing style and plot/content and more about panel to panel transitions (simplification- western comcis have more moment to moment manga have more aspect to aspect) and the impact the religious traditions of the nations had on the development of tropes (simplification: western abrihamic tradition = superhero. Manga shinto/buddist tradition = giant robot) however, given that the originators of Manga in Japan were influenced by Western animation and comcis at the time (everyone knows Tezuko loved Walt Disneys work) I dont see even a lick of a problem with a modern definition being simple that Manga is merely the Japanese word for comics. There all comics. They’re all Manga. The genre definitions however (shogo/romance/shonen/western/sci-fi whatever) are still very important.
March 10th, 2009 at 4:39 am
aoi house is written by americans(at least i think so) and they aren’t targetted to japanese people per se. it is right to left formatted but it’s a webcomic..or manga if you will
http://gomanga.com/webmanga/index.php?series=aoi&page=1
March 10th, 2009 at 5:06 am
@ Matt “DW pockets, they’re the next big little thing!”
I wanna know who thought up that incredibly stupid marketing ploy and thought it would work, and at the final days of the DW collapse, did a dude named Nero start showing up at the offices to provide some live entertainment?
Besides being a chance to pick up up some trades that were oop on the DW line or hard to find (I was hoping Darkminds would get a pocket adaption) the pockets really were just an attempt to cash in on the whole manga thing, and a bad one at that.
March 10th, 2009 at 6:32 am
I don’t really care what it’s called. I think I have a good enough sense to avoid the crap like “Nectarine Fuzz” and go for titles that are good, no matter where they happen to come from or what they say they are. Though I do tend to use manga as a a sweeping term I also use comic and graphic novel to describe some “manga”.
I was reading a “manga” that was left to right format, when a friend who’s particularly “passionate” about things not being labelled “manga” was giving me a bit of a hard time for being a sell out and reading a series that wasn’t Asian. So I slowly closed my book and showed him that it was in fact a Korean manwha comic he STFU pretty quickly.
March 10th, 2009 at 1:13 pm
Considering the word Manga does not mean “a japanese comic book in graphic novel format modified by culture” - it instead refers to a particular medium… You are kind of wrong. Wrong in the technical sense, but correct in the spirit of the medium.
Manga does not have to read right to left, or even be originally in Japanese; it just has to be stylistically there in the proper format. Just as Japanese have Art Deco works, and we do as well - it is this form of art wherever it is, as long as it fits to the genre and medium.
The rest has been covered; seriously though some above are right - the elitism based comics aren’t the laugh the others are… this one I never gave a chuckle… I emailed links of the M. Bison vs. comic to everyone I knew.
March 10th, 2009 at 1:46 pm
I have to agree with the above comment saying anime/manga is really more of an art style and though im not saying anyone here is, saying it has to be japanese for japanese sounds kinda weeabooish to me.
thought at the very least, western manga could at least be considered doujinshi (it doesn’t all have to be porn
)
March 10th, 2009 at 2:23 pm
they are all comics to me, artists should use whatever style suites them best, I used to think like this too, and it does seem to feel weird as far as marketing ploys are concerned…but I mean, I guess that, think about how you draw street fighter, but street fighter is japanese, or…how that japanese artist did a comic adaption of Star Wars?
There’s also how the style known currently as japanese all originates in an adaption of Walt Disney’s style, so..manga is copying us more than the other way around, it’s all a happy exchange of cultures…^_____^
Bad writing/art is still bad writing/art, which is usually my turn off to “american manga”…the ones I see in the store have bad writing/art…lol
March 10th, 2009 at 6:58 pm
I draw manga-style, not manga itself. I’m not Japanese, nor do I come from Japan, but I come from the Philippines. I’m not the type of person to call his works “manga” when it’s not. I just settle for manga-style instead.
But whenever I read this, it makes my soul kinda ache a bit for some reason or another.
March 10th, 2009 at 7:08 pm
I laughed. So hard. I mean, yeah, manga is still a format, not something authentically made in Japan, but I see what you’re talking about and I must agree in some sense.
The Bible thing made my Christian side cry. Hard. Because it’s a real thing.
March 10th, 2009 at 8:35 pm
Being as how the term “Amerime” is used for U.S. produced cartoons trying to be anime (and some are genuinely good, such as “Avatar: the Last Airbender”) a term for atempts at copying manga should also be created. “Fanga” is catchy.
March 10th, 2009 at 10:14 pm
Ah…labels. How would we be snooty without them?
March 10th, 2009 at 11:02 pm
How bout we call the wannabes graphic novels or comic books?
March 11th, 2009 at 1:23 am
To me manga has to look Japanese enough that when you look at it, you go to look at the artist to see if they are Japanese or not. So, if it can do that to me it is manga. However many CAN’T do that and thus are not manga to me.
As for Left to Right, Manhwa (Korean stuff) is Left to Right, so if you want to say that, let’s all call it Manhwa :3
March 11th, 2009 at 10:17 pm
The definition of these words getting so muddled is kind of a good thing when you think about it. It means the world and it’s cultures are coming together (or some other cheesy benetton ad).
I was looking for trade paperbacks of Marvel’s Runaways and all I could find were these digest (closer to manga) sized volumes. Kind of a bummer.
PS. don’t forget, Witchblade: Takeru, Shakespeare and Aviril Levign.
March 11th, 2009 at 10:33 pm
I read the Shakespeare “manga” of Romeo and Juliet. It was weird…very weird. I found it at the library I go to on my free time. I’m lucky that I haven’t found the bible manga.
March 12th, 2009 at 3:39 am
Matt, I agree 1000%!
March 12th, 2009 at 9:31 am
Miley Cyrus has manga now?
Oh dear, God… We. Are. All. Doomed.
March 13th, 2009 at 7:22 am
So manga, an art style, has to be made in Japan and only in Japan to be called manga?
But they call any comic a “manga” in Japan. They also can use the term manga to mean a cartoon.
What about cartoons made in France? Can they not be called cartoons because they aren’t made in the U.S. by Disney?
Grindhouse is a type of movie, but it was made in the States. If a movie that looks exactly like a grindhouse is made in Italy, you mean it can’t be called “a grindhouse”?
All these terms, it’s so confusing.
I miss the good ole days when a comic was a comic, a cartoon was a cartoon, and fun was just fun. Why people have to make up terms for every little thing and say what is or isn’t it otherwise it can’t be good
March 13th, 2009 at 4:51 pm
So true I hat this almost as much as fanfics.
March 13th, 2009 at 5:23 pm
I’m a fan of plenty on the anime / manga front, but I don’t really consider there to be any real difference between anime / manga and cartoons / comics. Always seemed that people were insisting on splitting hairs by dividing the two.
March 13th, 2009 at 11:26 pm
ALSO: Kudos for the MegaTokyo web comic tribute. My friend has a couple volumes of that book - its actually pretty funny. :O
March 17th, 2009 at 2:05 pm
I, sort of, agree.
Manga just means comic, there is nothing (and I mean NOTHING) special about Manga. It is just a comic book in japan. This means that in Japan, Superman, Spider-Man, and even Kalvin and Hobbs are Manga. This also means that in the US, Fruits Basket, Slayers, and even Ranma 1/2 are all… You guessed it… Comics.
March 18th, 2009 at 5:22 am
manga basically means japanes comics
and if its not produced in japan or for japanese people well it not manga
its just comics
March 19th, 2009 at 3:29 pm
i have ideas for some little formers comics. heres 2 scripts
March 21st, 2009 at 8:26 pm
This is right here, in the present, not the future.
March 23rd, 2009 at 10:23 am
MANGA IS THE JAPANESE WORD FOR COMICS. I have a Japanese roommate and she refers to Spider-man as “Manga” (and I’m not talking Marvel Mangaverse here).
There is a chapter in Scott McCloud’s “Making Comics” that I would like for you to read.
March 28th, 2009 at 4:32 pm
Being raised in both Japan and Canada, and thus raised on both Manga/Comics I can agree with Matt: THEY ARE NOT THE SAME.
First, “Manga” is NOT Japanese for “Comic”. Japanese (like many Westerners) differentiate the two; it’s actually referred to as “American Comikusu”. (See the Ryoichi Ikegami Spider-man vs Stan Lee’s and try telling anyone they’re even remotely similar)
More important is Matt’s qualification “Made for a Japanese Audience”, or more specifically, the “Japanese Market”. And this is my main point:
Manga isn’t sold in thin 20 page pamphlets, it’s sold in PHONE BOOK SIZE weekly/monthly publications, with well over 20 series in a single volume, e.g. Monthly Jump. (Tankobon are reserved for successful manga). The difference is that a “comic” might sell with a flashy cover (overly violent scene or scantily clad women), but for a Manga to succeed, you need to capture the reader’s attention from all the other series in the book, literally like channel surfing. Hence art style, storylines, visual impact, everything is specifically catered to Japanese society, resulting is stylistic and material differences. Things as obvious as violence and sexuality, to societal values on religion, war, tradition; if you read a true manga, you WILL see a difference.
Lastly, while comics are often seen as a sign of adolescence/immaturity (e.g. Simpson’s Comic Book Guy), manga has never been exclusively for kids. Read any Sangokushi/三国志, Sensouron/戦争論 or any Tezuka Osamu epic and try telling anyone they’re “comics”.
So, it’s not as simple as “they’re the same”; you could seriously write a dissertation on this…
April 13th, 2009 at 9:49 pm
Matt,
I can see where you are going with this, BUT Japan has lots of problems with racism, racial discrimination and ethno-centricity right now and the manga debate isn’t needed to fuel that fire of “we Japanese, with our unique culture are completely unique from you gaijin” idea still festering in the minds of almost every person born and bred Japanese.
Manga and Anime have finally been seen as a great commodity and cultural asset by the Japanese community. However, so have Judo, sushi and Sumo.
Judo and sushi are very Japanese things, but the other great things about them is that they have also become international things in their own right. Thisalso worked for USA things like the Hamburger, so now you can get Japanese style hamburgers and USA-style sushi.
Judo too has breached borders, with an international committee, meaning that judo is a tough sport and Japanese have to try harder to fight at an international level.
In Japan however, American football and Sumo are dead or dying. A-Ball died coz they banned foreign players (”too big and strong for we japanese” was the excuse) and Sumo is dying every day too for the same reasons. They only let a handful of foreigners compete, with the result that Japanese fighters get creamed and the top of the game are nearly all foreigners.
Sumo also bans women from entering the ring (the mayor of Osaka was banned from even stepping over the ring boundary via an elevated platform to give an award to a fighter, to national outcry) and the links to corruption, yakuza and scandals such as hazing-related bullying-deaths, money bribes (its been proved that almost every fighter takes a fall for cash or career advancement) etc.
All of this is linked to a closed, “uniquely Japanese” way of doing things. The Japanese sumo association still refuses to join or recognise the european one, even though many of Japanese top sumos come from europe or places that compete with the european associations players.
So you see, manga is a great thing because it can cross boundaries, much like sushi or judo and NOT a fixed thing, like sumo.
In fact, other oriental countries now enjoy their own manga and anime. Dont forget that some of our best and most beloved western style and even japanese anime was animated in…korea.
which according to your idea above, would not be “anime”, right?
April 24th, 2009 at 10:01 pm
…dude, there are three holes in your logic:
Manga made outside of Japan can be intended for Japanese. A lot more Americans speak Japanese than they should.
Korean, Chinese, and other manga ethnicity exist.
Several manga artists like Rumiko Takahashi and Osamu Tekuza use left to right.
May 23rd, 2009 at 12:11 am
I have a question then, how would you view series that were created in joint by one Japanese person and one non-Japanese person for worldwide or japanese release?
May 23rd, 2009 at 12:15 am
Or for that matter what about series made by Japanese-Americans?
May 25th, 2009 at 3:10 pm
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
hhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
it’s so funny it hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrttttttttttttttsssssssssssssss………..
June 23rd, 2009 at 5:40 pm
OI! FRUIT BASKET ISN’T A MANGA, IT’S A SOAP OPERA IN MANGANIME FORM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
June 28th, 2009 at 4:58 pm
They did however actually make a legitimate Wolverine manga.
June 29th, 2009 at 3:49 am
Manga = Graphic Novel
July 13th, 2009 at 7:36 pm
“Fanga” makes sense. ^______^
I love Megatokyo, but I don’t think it’s manga. It’s more like a tribute to japanese drawing-style, since it’s supposed to happen IN Japan.
October 1st, 2009 at 10:57 pm
Megatokyo has never ever claimed to be manga… they in fact, specifically say that they are not… they’r ejust a webcomic.
November 12th, 2009 at 5:52 am
i do not mind if its left to right ONLY if it has been flipped post production. (i.e images are a dirrect opposite to how they look in right to left version.
also it needs to be made by japs with a aftermarket translation. meaning that in times where a pun is funny in jap we need footnotes to get it (like in ranma 1/2 they refer to a girls breast as father due to translation puns).
if it was made american with english text from scratch it fails hardcore.
November 12th, 2009 at 5:59 am
also i agree magna and comics are WAY diffrent. they are sold specially diffrent, the art is diffrent and the market is diffrent.
comics are small picture books designed for kids to lazy to read to enjoy a good few minutes.
magna are generally alot longer per book and are stories where sheer description can not fully explain what is happening so pictures have to be included to further enhance the reading story and show deeper emotion.
by default a manga is a more mid teen/young adult market while comics are for pre teens. saying this though there are alot of shades of grey between the 2 and mis classification has started to ruin the abilities to tell the diffrence.
also japanese adult comics (hentai) is not manga! its a diffrent form again know as doujin which is simular but distinct to manga
November 28th, 2009 at 8:31 pm
You’re soo right! This hurt my soul then freaks call their odd comic manga. Or then they say that Winx is an anime. I mean… they don’t even know what is a manga! Technically manga MUST be done in Japan. Because big eyeballs and neko brain-murders don’t make a comic a manga. And manga means “funny pictures” I heard… Good work, Matt!
December 7th, 2009 at 1:24 am
Okay first thing, Matt is right.
Manga is the japanese artform of comics. NOT the american one, we have a word for that, Comics and Graphic Novels.
Anime is not all Animation either! Sure things can be inspired by anime, but that doesn’t make it anime itself. Unless you’re french, in which things get complicated. A good story, is simply just that, a good story. It is not anime simply because it’s too good to be called a cartoon or animated series. For that matter, Cartoon simply means satirical in nature. So yes anime can be cartoons too, but not all cartoons are anime.
Tetsuwan Atom, Or astro boy as you know him, was created by the god father of anime to mimic DISNEY and BETTY BOOP, and is simply his version of a scifi Pinnochio, a fairy tale! Anime has its roots deeply seeded within the american culture, not vice versa. Anime is animation created for asian markets, by asians. In fact, Japan itself has a law against showing foreign animation on their standard tv stations. It has to be made by japan to be shown in Japan. THAT is anime (asian markets are included in this, such as china and korea like Red Hawk among others).
Avatar the last airbender for example, is NOT anime. It’s anime influenced, but solidly american produced and made. It is not anime by any means whatsoever. Manga for example is written by a manga-ka, which is NOT something americans are. We are authors or artists.
As for the retorts of fan art using anime and manga, well duh, it’s fan art. It can mimic whatever its topic is. That doesn’t make it, itself manga. It’s just fan art. Pure and simple.
The godfather of anime himself has been quoted as to saying what influenced him, Disney, and betty boop by name. These are facts that the modern era of anime worshippers do not seem to grasp. We use the foreign words for these things, as to denote their origin, and intended audience. Hence why they have been brought to english speaking usage. Not for them to usurp our own words because they are ‘cooler’. We should stop boasting everything as what it’s not. Anime did not have any real influence in the US til the late 70s.
But back then, people had the decency to reference the exact material, and not just stereotyping, and mis-representing what things are. Anime and Manga are used in modern vernacular because ‘lawl’ they make things sound cooler, but in all honesty, all it’s doing is furthering the degradation of what these things truly are, and one of the main reasons why Japan has become quite hateful towards foreigners in their lands. This past halloween even had quite the large amount of protestors telling “whitey to go home”, “Stop ruining our heritage and culture”, and “This isn’t america.”
So seriously people, take a history lesson and learn what you speak about.
Betty Boop is not anime, quite the opposite, Boop inspired anime, as did Steam Boat willie. Anime is solely to describe the areas of origin and original intended audience. Just as Manga is the same. There is no such thing as an American Manga-ka who writes Manga for americans.
Anime itself is not short for animation either, it’s derived from the french word for animation due to Japan’s massive hardon for french literature, just as the Noir era of novels in america, helped inspire japanese story telling.
Philip Marlow, Sam Spade, the original French Novels Lupin. These are the origins to anime and manga alongside Betty Boop and Steam Boat Willie.
You want to understand good story telling, and why manga is allegedly superior to ‘american’ writing? You need to look to the past. Our own literature, and world wide literature is what’s being ignored for these things, when our own material should be hailed as the pioneers. Japanese scifi? Well look no further than original star trek, blade runner, and many of the other iconic films that have been created over the years.
Ultraman? Guess where its origins are from? It’s originally a spin off from a show called Ultra Q, which was inspired by a certain tv show called the twilight zone. It struck a chord within japan’s culture because of tensions from after the two big bombs dropped, and foreign occupancy by americans. Cyborg 009? The first superteam in japan, was inspired by an american comic strip called super spy X9. Noticing a trend here? The pioneers of japan, whether it’s the godfather of anime, or the god father of scifi (ishinomori), all drew upon a wide array of literature, and media. Do I even have to go into how far such things as Superman and Batman reverberated in japanese society? All of which predate, their foreign counterparts. Even the much hailed Ghost in the Shell, Akira, Vampire Hunter D, and Bubble Gum crisis, even godzilla all owe their thanks to American Media and literary Pioneers. Even the modern day Kamen Rider W, has its origins within the Philip Marlow Crime novels. Do I even need to go over what Robocop has inspired? Or the likes of Green Lantern? (The Space Sheriff japanese series…) The Kaiju era of films? Inspired from some of the earliest works of the US with Giant ants, spiders, and more. Which just reverberated within the culture due to radiation fears from the bombs.
Stop being literary elitist, all it’s doing is ruining your perspective on what was once a golden age of world wide literature, live media, and animation. It makes me worry about the upcoming generations, and how little they understand.
But then again, I guess that’s to be expected when modern authors use wander for the word wonder, personal for personnel, and worse.
Let alone the success of the stalker-tastic Twilight series. (Officially worse than the Bayverse.)
December 7th, 2009 at 1:40 am
Winx is not anime either, it’s italian made.
The only other country that can skate on being called anime is France. Because the word “Anime`” is their word for animation. Which btw, is why Anime is supposed to be spelled Anime`. Sadly, a few faux animes on american tv can be called Anime, if they were done by a french studio. But the artistic stylings of both anime, manga, and comics, surpass the simple trivial ones they are known for as big eyes, and such. All art from all over the world varies in styles that can’t simply be summed up in one word. Even american animation widely varies from Dexter, and PPG, to steam boat willie, betty boop, and Centurions, the styles all over the board domesticly in all forms of media, just as they do all over the world.
December 24th, 2009 at 9:52 pm
if anyone calling their work, or titling their work as Manga pretty much disqualifies themselves as Manga already. I agree with you, and I have no problems with Americans doing a Japanese-style comic book, but that’s what it is, a comic book, don’t try so hard to be Japanese. I’m kinda sad at the fact we’re going for more Japanese style work rather than refining our own. Some of the artwork for Marvel and DC especially look awesome. Anime and Manga look cool, but its pretty much copy and paste. Tired of seeing Big Eyes Small mouths >.>, Especially in things like X-men, Spiderman, The Avengers, I’m looking at you Mangaverse…
January 25th, 2010 at 5:57 pm
Personally I believe anything made by Americans should be kept in the American style. Anything made by Japanese should be made in the Japanese style.
Putting American Icons in “Manga”’s style is like putting the Honda ‘H’ on the Ford Mustang. It just Isn’t right.
February 5th, 2010 at 7:41 pm
I think its most important that it’s written right-to-left
February 23rd, 2010 at 5:10 am
Any graphic novel can be called a manga, any manga can be called a graphic novel. Also, any comic strip can be called a manga and any manga done in that style can be called a comic strip. Coincidentally, any comic strip in book form can be called a graphic novel, and if a graphic novel was originally posted in short segments it can be called a comic strip.
The same goes for Anime, with the American “long form” term being Animated Series, though Cartoon still works. Even more so since Anime is an English word. Also a French Anime is still both an Anime and a Cartoon. Even more so since Anime with an acute on the “e” kinda like in “Pokemon” is a French word.
Though if you really must have them distinguished, Japan is Anime/Manga/NicoNicoDouga, America is Animated Series/Cartoon/Comic Book/Comic Strip/Youtube, and France is Anime with an acute on the “e”/???/DailyMotion.
February 23rd, 2010 at 5:12 am
Oh and one more thing. Don’t make English comics read right-to-left unless you’re preserving artwork in a translation from Hebrew or Japanese or pulling some metahumor or something. That’s just annoying for all parties involved.